[{"id": 1406571, "authorName": "PWSchuh", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pwschuh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Wow. Very tasty example of an earlyish D. Accessory driving lights are plus and even though the color scheme is not the most exciting, it is very distinguished looking.\n\n(Technically I believe it's an \"ID 19,\" not a \"DS 19 ID.\"", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487949834, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406575, "authorName": "Chas_H", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/chas_h/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Spark plug connectors should have a bonnet to seal against the valve cover. The current arrangement will allow water into the spark plug well.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487949866, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406577, "authorName": "PWSchuh", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pwschuh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Chas H - Correct, but shame on anyone who lets this thing get wet...", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487949916, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406582, "authorName": "Citroprez", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/citroprez/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "The interior upholstery was redone at some point. It is not original to the ID. And the car would not have originally come with headrests.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487950266, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406590, "authorName": "manpot", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/manpot/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "How car you not love this..those extra lights give it a lovely \" rallye\" look..", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487950616, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406595, "authorName": "Blyndgesser", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/blyndgesser/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "C'est une grande id\u00e9e. Une d\u00e9esse plus simple.", "likes": 4, "timestamp": 1487950806, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406614, "authorName": "watchcarefully", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/watchcarefully/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "It's the perfect color for the Douro valley...like fine vintage Port.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487951480, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406629, "authorName": "JoeP", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/joep/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "What? Nobody's gonna jump at the \"semi-automatic\" description? IDs didn't get that transmission, as evidenced by the clutch pedal on the floor.... C'mon, BaT, you guys oughta know better than that.....", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1487952195, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406631, "authorName": "metric", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/metric/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@ BaT: As @PWSchuh says, this is a Citroen ID19. The DS19 is another model. The colour is not original: no reds were available for the ID19 in model year 1961.", "likes": 8, "timestamp": 1487952218, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406638, "authorName": "vty777", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/vty777/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "No doubt-this Citroen is a Lemon", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487952356, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406646, "authorName": "JoeP", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/joep/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "... and those hood hold-downs! Like warts on the face of an otherwise attractive goddess....\n\n The photo of the left-front turn signal lens is telling, too... \"Just slap a big washer on there, and screw it into whatever remains of the sheet metal\".....I'd be VERY cautious here, and want to see photos with the rear fenders off, and the trunk open as well......", "likes": 5, "timestamp": 1487952605, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406672, "authorName": "Lucien84", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/lucien84/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "This is not a citromatic, it is a regular 4 speed car. Also, the interior is nowhere near original.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1487953816, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406696, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Thank you all for your interest.\r\nHad the chance to contact the family who owned the car since 1961 and the original Portuguese title from 23 June 1961 states \"red + other\" as original colours.\r\nI will see if he can send a foto so that BAT can add to the image gallery. They kept the original title as memorabilia since sometime ago all cars had to update their title format (mandatory) and owners where allowed to keep the original documents. \r\nI also asked and in the model description it comes as an ID19P Comfort version of the Citroen DS. \r\nIn terms of gearbox it might have been a misinterpretation and not a BAT mistake, the car does have a clutch and gear shifter on the right hand side of the steering wheel. \r\nWill try to answer all of your questions as we go along.\r\nThank you", "likes": 5, "timestamp": 1487954714, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406730, "authorName": "bringatrailer", "authorUrl": "", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "This car is equipped with a 4-speed manual gearbox, and not a semi-automatic as previously described. This has been changed in the listing!", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487956303, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406734, "authorName": "CEC", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/cec/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Lots of erroneous infos in this description ... This is an ID 19 with a 4 spd manual that has been repainted and with the wrong interior !!!", "likes": 5, "timestamp": 1487956369, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406731, "authorName": "metric", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/metric/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I have to think that @BaT is really asleep here. They seem to have simply cut and pasted incorrect information supplied by the car's owner.\n\nFrom \"BaT Essentials\":\n\u2022 As noted by others, the car does not have a Semi-Automatic Transmission.\n\u2022 It's not a \"First Generation DS\", but a first generation ID19.\n\nFrom BaT's text description:\n\u2022 This ID19 may be an \"unrestored example\", but neither is it original.\n\u2022 The ID19 is not a \"submodel of the DS19\" but a model in the D-series in its own right.\n\u2022 For paint to be \"believed original\" by most of us, it would be of a colour available when the car was new, and for overspray (actually overpainting) to be absent on such things as the rubber gaskets for the auxiliary driving lights, the ornaments atop the front fenders just above the headlights, and the door strikers.\n\u2022 The \"unrestored\" interior has been reupholstered. Is there a difference? \n\u2022 I guess BaT's \"discoloration\" is this man's \"grime\". \n\u2022 If the \"single aspiration tube\" is the hose connecting the hydraulic filter to the pump, what's shown here is just a length of hose, not of the correct type.\n\u2022 This Citroen mechanic of fifty years' experience is unfamiliar with the terms \"brake block and control rubbers\". \n\u2022 Are we offered details of the \"suspension service\"? Which \"new gaskets and ball bearings\" are these?\n\u2022 The ID19's braking system works just fine as designed. If the brakes are \"a bit weak\", they're broken. This is not something to blame on the braking system's design.\n\n@BaT: if you intend to be a leader in auctions of cars of this type, you need to do just a bit of homework before simply posting a seller's information.\n\nI do not mean to hijack the seller's auction: this car certainly has its good points. If hijacking has been done, I'll blame BaT for posting unvetted information knowing full well that there are experts here on every car, who stand ready to correct misinformation.", "likes": 36, "timestamp": 1487956469, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406760, "authorName": "metric", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/metric/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@CEC: May not be the wrong interior, just reupholstered. There appears to be an armrest on the left front door panel, which would not be correct for France, but is correct for some export markets including USA, and perhaps Portugal. The headrests are probably just accessories, not made as part of the seats.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1487957582, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406767, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Dear @metric Bat is most certainly not asleep here, they asked the right questions and I tried to answer the best I could not being a Citroen expert. \nWe have all agreed that this is a manual gearbox and not a semi automatic. \nIf the correct car name or model doesn't come with \"DS\" it was always referred as a an ID model. \nIn terms of colours, these are the ones referred in the original car documents/title, is it possible that it might have been something ordered by the client back in 1961? Because it does come as the original configuration. \nWhen BAT asked me about the interiors I called the first owner (Doctor) grandson and he told me he believed that they where original. I told BAT they seemed to be, because of the condition etc but sent some images so that they may have a look. If that is not the case then it is my mistake and not BAT's because I was given a incorrect information. \nThe suspension works fine.\nIn terms of brakes, what I said was that FOR ME these brakes seem to slow the car down more than actually braking. And from what I read online, even on Wikipedia, everyone seemed to say that these brakes where weak from day one. \nI own other classic cars, much more powerful and with great brakes, and I was just careful to warn new buyers that this car is heavy, a \"cruiser\", and for me the brakes are a bit weak.\nAll information that helps new buyers is welcome, hope you are just not here to look for flaws...", "likes": 6, "timestamp": 1487957955, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406778, "authorName": "CEC", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/cec/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@metric. I was talking about the upholstery.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487958262, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406799, "authorName": "irscott11", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/irscott11/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@metric Your expertise I'm sure is very appreciated by potential buyers, however, your obsession over aspects that are supported by paperwork seem a bit much. As we all know, it's hard to track all the details of cars that are this old. The family sometimes remembers or can be confused, maybe work done was not documented, small things were addressed with wrong parts, etc etc. The seller appears to be involved and honest in his descriptions and BaT primarily creates the descriptions based on the seller's information. They don't see the car and are not out to contradict or prove seller's wrong. As any other classic car sale channel, they have to trust the seller. And the great thing about their system is that anyone like you and me can comment, learn and enjoy a car auction without having to bid. Again, your knowledge is outstanding and I'd consult you for sure if I was in the market for fantastic french classic like this one. Best of luck on the sale!", "likes": 7, "timestamp": 1487958993, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406822, "authorName": "930rbo", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/930rbo/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I agree there are mistakes in the description, but some comments here are over repetitive. One guy says the interior is not original and all of the sudden 10 other guys all come out reinforcing it. I think we can all read the first comment.\nDespite the non original interiors and paint (which in my view it\u2019s really not that big of an issue as they look in good condition), this is an awesome looking early Citro\u00ebn. A mint ID19's fetches close to $40k. I\u2019m curious to see how much is this one will be going for. I\u2019ll be following this one closely\nGLWS", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487959600, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406845, "authorName": "CEC", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/cec/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@irscott11: I think a minimum diligence is due from BaT when accepting to auction an unusual car, even when the seller makes statements that are obviously inaccurate. Just a little vetting and not to have to rely exclusively on the knowledge of members.", "likes": 7, "timestamp": 1487960269, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406881, "authorName": "Autophile", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/autophile/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "All this talk about the description in the listing. Looks ok to me. The only thing I would change would be in the 1st paragraph where it reads: \"it still possessed the hydropneumatic self-leveling suspension.\"\nI would only add one word: it's still possessed \"BY\" the hydropneumatic self-leveling suspension.", "likes": 9, "timestamp": 1487961741, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406890, "authorName": "biffer", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/biffer/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Mistakes have been made by umpteen other more established auctioneers than BaT. And will continue to be made in the future. One man's due diligence is anothers negligence, but using the wrong model name, and other descriptive errors don't or won't throw off any serious prospective buyer. It doesn't change the car itself one iota. As I've said before, you should by a car with your eyes as wide open as possible - caveat emptor.\n\nJust goes to show the passion these cars can evoke, hornets nest or not.", "likes": 4, "timestamp": 1487962029, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406894, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@CEC all correct comments are welcome and will definitely help.\nNevertheless we cannot assume that the statements are \"obviously inaccurate\"...\nIf the car was referred as a Citroen DS19 ID, it was clearly not intended to misinform.\nBAT just added an image to the gallery with the old car title that the grandson of the previous owner was kind enough to send, and as you may see it states \"vermelha e outras\" which means \"red + other\". \nI am not a Citroen expert, just love and own classic cars, but it may just be the case where the original owner asked for a specific configuration he loved. \nI don't know ;) \nThe gearbox was just a misinterpretation while exchanging quite a lot of emails, and was not BAT's mistake, it must have been mine. \nBut if It came out as a 3 door car with these images we can all agree that it was a unharmful mistake...everyone would see the other doors as they would clearly see the clutch. \nAnyway, I have bought quite a few classic cars along the years and never assumed I new everything from them.\nI am glad that some of you are well informed and I will definitely learn a lot in this process, but there are also quite some few comments that assume they are correct and in fact are not.\nWe are used to that in BAT ;)\nI will try to help the best I can! \nBear in mind I did not own this car since day one and do not know every single thing about it, I am relying on the previous owner info and what I can gather online and with some people that are more into Citroens than I am. \nThank you!", "likes": 8, "timestamp": 1487962098, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406924, "authorName": "kiefer", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/kiefer/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Holy panel gaps Batman!", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487963564, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1406989, "authorName": "beNGK", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/bengk/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@CEC :\n\nas I've proposed in prior comment, when BaT has listed cars with grossly inaccurate descriptions/characterizations of options/standard/etc : \n\nit would be dead easy for BaT to have a select group of marque-specific experts to whom auction descriptions were run by prior to listing. BaT doesn't get a submission on Monday and list the car Tuesday, so there is plenty of time for marque-specific review ahead of listing. maybe even just to put the auction pages up ahead of going live in a protected section of the site for peer review. I understand that BaT lives & dies by the visitors and commenters to the site, but we're all done a disservice by ill-written auction which distracts from the car on offer.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1487965757, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407163, "authorName": "PWSchuh", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pwschuh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@beNGK is exactly right. The errors in this listing have detracted this auction from perhaps getting off to a snappier start. If the auction did not have to start out with various people pointing out flaws in the description, it seems that sales momentum could be built sooner rather than later.\n\nThis is a very nice D and deserves to go to a good home where the new owner is fully aware of all of its strengths and weaknesses.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487968326, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407201, "authorName": "David_P", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/david_p/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@metric - I am going to guess you don't know what the terms \u201cbrake block\" and \"control rubbers\u201d refer to because you are an American. Those are British terms (for the brake pads and the pedal pads) and, as a European, I would expect the seller to use British English rather than American English.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487968782, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407570, "authorName": "Lewis", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/lewis/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "David P- I work on Tractions in a garage in London for several weeks every year. I've never heard my boss or any of the other spanner jockeys use the terms \"brake block\" or \"control rubbers\" They say, brake pads and pedal pads or pedal rubbers. Actually they don't say brake pads as Tractions have drum brakes. But I've sure never heard that term spoken in the U.K. I can also vouch for Metric's knowledge of Ds. Not that he needs it.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1487975928, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407595, "authorName": "leaf36", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/leaf36/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Everybody pile on! Thank you seller, BaT, and all the knowledgeable commenter(s) that makes this auction site so much better than those big auction houses. If you're just a dumbass that likes cars (like me), but don't know everything there is to know, it's a real help.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487977041, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407606, "authorName": "leaf36", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/leaf36/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "*commentators!!", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1487977549, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407629, "authorName": "David_P", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/david_p/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Lewis - I defer to your knowledge. I know I have seen this in writing somewheres, but obviously whatever I thought I knew is either inadequate, wrong or archaic.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1487979054, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407643, "authorName": "David_P", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/david_p/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Also, I have no reason to doubt @metric's expertise in the cars, so pardon me if I came across that way.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1487979440, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407778, "authorName": "Beyfon", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/beyfon/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "It has been an interesting discussion, and quite clearly this is more of a \"good driver\" than a museum piece. Still a nice car! I only have two things to mention: ID19 had un-assisted brakes up until 1961. If this car doesn't have assisted brakes I can understand why a modern-day driver feels like the brakes don't bite. There may be problems, or it might just be that you have to push the pedal harder than you think, I don't know. Secondly, on colors I'd be hesitant to be too certain that they are wrong. I once had a very original-68 ID19 Super Confort. I don't know how many experts that knew that \"all ID19 had white roof at that time\" but no, I even had a picture from when the first owner picked up the car at the dealer and the roof was indeed green. My impression was that Citroen often did different configurations to the importers in different countries so I would not be surprised if they sold a car in Portugal that didn't comply with the specifications for the French market.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1487987996, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407907, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Rodemarz, no Citroen is a lemon unless it's been severely mistreated by a fool of an owner. And JoeP, that washer on the LH turnsig. is there because those plastic front turnsigs are the original ones from the year this car was built, and the plastics the whole world had back then were pretty poor - terrible UV resistance, no toughness, so whoever put the washer there was to replace the outer plastic edge which had broken off - and these early lights are extremely rare these days and only used in Europe. The US DOT corrupted many European lights, whether or not they were better (usually) or worse (NOT!) than US spec ones. Finding a replacement for that light could be pretty difficult, but some hand fabricating of a new edge could make it look pretty respectable. As for the spotlights, those are rare and EXPENSIVE but common add-ons for Citroens - I paid $350 for the used set I bought at Retromobile about 6 yrs ago, and considered myself lucky to get a set for my '63 convertible. \nBy the way for any novice buyers here - this car was designed around the original Michelin X radials, and the size it uses is 165-400 mm, an odd size which only very few European cars used, since Michelin owned Citroen from about '35 to somewhere in the '80s when Peugeot bought them. And the wheels are the original single bolt - which is huge and screws into a floating wedge ring inside one of the most intricate and expensive pieces of machined steel you'll ever see. So - be prepared to spend around $300 per tire or so thru Coker, or go to Longstone tires in the UK - a very reliable, reasonably-priced source. And - you can't balance these wheels on any US machine - there is no center hole - just a huge hex socket into which the wheelbearing \"nut\" fits. And being a diameter of 15 3/4 inches roughly, no other tires will fit properly, altho I've found a way to crossbreed these singlebolt rims with the later 15 in. ones on the second series cars, and still clear the suspension balljoints. \nI used to ice race my DS on Lake Geneva N. of Chicago and the southern Wisconsin lakes back before global warming made the ice thin, and with the built-in jacking of the D series, I could hang it up on the stand, and swap on two home-made studded Xs in minutes per side much faster vs the other guys dealing with 5 studs and having to jack each end of the car separately. \nThe ID was a cost-reduced version of the '55 DS19, as the car was very costly to build - there are no other cars in the world except Citroens, which have ALL suspension arms mounted in - not cheap rubber bushings which eventually crumble - but tapered rollerbearings. That's why the Citroen suspensions stay accurate and predictable until you really prang something. Unless you've taken one of these cars apart, you'll never grasp the high level of quality engineering and quality steel - not to mention INNOVATION - that every one of these cars contains - which has to be one reason the price of a 2CV is about as bad relatively as a 356 - tapered rollerbearings on a tin can car?? Yes, which is why it can go anywhere with incredible wheel travel which no rubber bushing could survive for a month. \nExpanding on the \"weak\" brakes a bit: This car has the first inboard disc brake caliper design - we call it the mousetrap. It's full of overdesign by the engineers, such that the floating piston block tends to bind up in its frame, along with the two pistons in the floater freezing in their bores due to very tight clearance and the electrolytic action of yrs of DOT 3 brake fluid making the alum piston block and steel pistons into a nice battery cell - which corrodes the alum. and they can bind up so tight you need a very high pressure (higher than the brake system!) to blow them out. Not only that, but the clearance is SO tight that one winter at -20 F in Chicago, my RH alum. caliper block SHRANK onto the steel piston so tight it locked my brake on that side and I slid off the road as it wouldn't unlock. \nBut - with the right approach these calipers work wonderfully - after you make a few simple mods to increase the clearances and throw away one or two parts that are worse than eliminating them over the long run. Contact me offline if you want the details. The ID brakes do take more effort as they're purely manual, and disc brakes aren't self-energizing as drums are - that's a big diff., and why all disc system are now powered.\nI suspect these brakes are partially seized, which would account for their \"weak\" feel - beyond the fact that they DO NOT benefit from the power of the Citroen hydraulic system UNTIL you've lost the master cylinder - then an emergency valve is opened and routes full suspension pressure to the front calipers and YOU WILL STOP FAST - I know.\nYet my '59 ID19 bought out of a used car lot in Salt Lake City, took me often at 90 mph thru Nevada to LA & college - a 750 mile run - in one day of 13 hrs on the road. And gave me about 27 mpg - on 70 horses. After graduation, I and two buddies drove that car from LA to N.Jersey - 3000 miles in 5 days - comfortably - we even slept in the car with both fronts folded flat one night in a farmer's field. ANY ID/DS is a marvel of experiences.", "likes": 22, "timestamp": 1487998899, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407922, "authorName": "Lewis", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/lewis/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Well said, or written, Frenchbuff!", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488000280, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1407982, "authorName": "adlucas", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/adlucas/", "bidAmount": 5000, "content": "$5,000 bid placed by adlucas", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488012210, "type": "bat-bid"}, {"id": 1407989, "authorName": "voiture", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/voiture/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I'm no DS expert, but I do live in France and write about autos for part of my living. This ID has a lot to like -- the color, the aux lights, the early nose that's true to the design (nothing wrong with the later integrated headlights either). No French enthusiast would blink an eye at this car's \"faults.\" The ONLY red flag, as it were, is the panel gaps -- I'd want to drive this to make sure it doesn't crab down the road.\n\nI will probably never own a DS, because getting into sui generis marques is a rabbit hole I won't go down again (Thanks, Trollhatten!), but to me, they are the greatest French cars ever. Every single part is fascinating.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488015754, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408009, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Thank you @frenchbuff your post brings a lot of information to potential buyers and myself! My experience is more into specific sports brands of classic cars but I always loved these early Citroens, they where revolutionary to their era in terms of design and technology, and that must definitely be why the DS placed third in the 1999 Car of the Century poll recognizing the world's most influential auto designs and was named the most beautiful car of all time by Classic & Sports Car magazine.\nYou are truly lucky to own a convertible model, they are absolutely stunning, and the prices have gone up and up, so great investment also. \nThank you @voiture ;)", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488025600, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408013, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Thank you @beyfon I agree, I tried to get as much information as I could to give an informed a realistic idea of the car to potential buyers, but I am always limited to the obvious. The title seems to vouch for the colours, so does the previous owners family, but with these cars it is hard to get info as easily as you do with a Porsche (for example), that you pay a fee and the brand gives you a certificate of the correct specs and extras the car left the factory with. \nWill try my best to help!", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488026364, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408034, "authorName": "Geezer", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/geezer/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Allowing my ignorance to shine , please someone tell me how you access the rear tires for changing. When I was younger and saw these cars I thought they were the ugliest thing on the road. How dumb can youth be? These are absolutely the coolest cars that an older wiser youth has ever seen. I love these cars.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488029204, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408064, "authorName": "oldukguy", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/oldukguy/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I still have a problem coming to terms with the fact that an ID Citroen is so very \"basic\" As in no power brakes for an obvious example! I'm busy saving my loose change hoping to find a concours SM.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488030776, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408074, "authorName": "Steverino", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/steverino/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Frenchbuff - \"...they DO NOT benefit from the power of the Citroen hydraulic system UNTIL you\u2019ve lost the master cylinder \u2013 then an emergency valve is opened and routes full suspension pressure to the front calipers and YOU WILL STOP FAST \u2013 I know.\" \nSomeone else recently referred to this as \"Jesus Brakes\". Because when it occurs the first words out of one's mouth are \"Jesus Christ, what just happened?\" Gave me a good chuckle.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488031595, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408104, "authorName": "vty777", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/vty777/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "In French a citron is a lemon.......humor!", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488033096, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408147, "authorName": "FSJ_Europe", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/fsj_europe/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Citroen has a service of assessment which can send a certificate with details on a car from their archives if you provide the car' numbers (chassis, body, engine) , a title copy and some photos. It's not free , you have to pay a fee.\nI didn't use this service so far, if someone wants more infos : adress and email below\nPSA PEUGEOT CITROEN\nConservatoire Citro\u00ebn - CC AN81\nService ldentification\nBd Andr\u00e9 Citro\u00ebn - BP 13\n93601 AULNAy SOUS BOIS CEDEX \nFRANCE\nemail: conservatoire@citroen.com", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488035475, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408380, "authorName": "911GT6", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/911gt6/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Great looking car. Serious deliberation on getting this one in to Canada. Nice!!", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488047152, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408423, "authorName": "BondoBoy", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/bondoboy/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I love these things! As a kid, the trim on the outside of the \"B\" pillars reminded me of Gomer Pyle's quonset hut. I never quite understood what led the car's designer to use that corrugated metal there.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488049388, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408448, "authorName": "rlbatch", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/rlbatch/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "The ID plate says \" I-D_19_P\" Could that translate to \"ID-19 Portugal\" ?", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488051440, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408474, "authorName": "Mystery_Trailer", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/mystery_trailer/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Geezer - changing a tire on a Citroen with the hydropneumatic suspension is one of the many brilliant Citroen features. I will refer to the ID-DS models specifically, others can pipe in regarding the SM etc.\n\nTo change a flat tire, first you raise the suspension to the highest position (manual selector on the kick panel as I remember - my dad bought a new 1965 ID 19 wagon (Break) when I was 13), then you insert a type of jack stand (provided with the car) at a specific location nearest the flat tire. It is a simple fixed unit. Then you move the manual ride height selector and the vehicle suspension settles a bit \"Except For The Corner With The Flat Tire\" as the jack stand prevents the frame from settling down. Meanwhile the flat tire is \"pulled up and off the ground\" due to the interference of the jack stand and \"voila\" the tire and wheel are accessible to remove.\n\nMy memory is from 52 years back...so anyone please adjust my explanation if needed!\n\nI seem to remember that it is possible to drive an ID/DS with only one of the two rear wheels mounted - with the suspension raised up - and the passenger load \"very carefully\" positioned to favor the side \"with the wheel and tire\"!\n\nOur '65 ID \"Break\" was an amazing vehicle. The capability and the comfort was over the top. I am not sure if the wonderful fabric interior was Alcantara back then - as you see so many references to Alcantara in the '70's but it was just about the same.\n\nIn 1967 we moved to Paris and my dad had a suburban Ford repair shop (Cortina specialist)\nfind him an 11CV \"without\" the extended trunk lid. They found a 1951 stored in a farmer's barn outside Chartres - it needed an engine overhaul - they performed it - and our family had some great adventures exploring France from our home base on the Quai de la Tournelle facing the Rose Window of Notre Dame Cathedral.\n\nWe moved back to San Francisco/Sausalito in 1968 and dad imported the Citroen - then sold the car locally in late '68 or early '69.\n\nIt had one feature that I believe was homemade and therefore unique. To lock the car from the outside - you first locked the rear doors and drivers door from the inside then slipped out the front passenger door and closed it. Opened the hood and on the passenger side of the firewall just ahead of the door jamb there was a sliding pin that you pushed in (it went through the door jamb and into the leading edge of the passenger front door) and then - similar to an old style garden gate latch - there was a bracket you inserted a padlock into as well as through the pin - and the car was locked.\n\nIt would be interesting to know where that car ended up today. I could share some stories about driving around France in an old Gangster Style Model 11 with a brand new engine under the hood and an official sticker on the trunk indicating the vehicle was \"En Rodage\" which meant it was undergoing the \"breaking in\" of a new motor. The official French sign was intended to explain to following drivers \"why\" the car was driving slower than normal.", "likes": 7, "timestamp": 1488053259, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408487, "authorName": "rlbatch", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/rlbatch/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Geezer to change the rear tire, use the wheel nut wrench to remove the single bolt just above the reflector at the rear of the fender and swing off the fender from it front mounts. Raise the car to maximum (hydraulic suspension control lever by drivers left leg) Loosen wheel nut, place stand jack on frame pin, insert jack pin into stand, lower suspension control lever to minimum. both wheels on that side will retract off the ground. Check YouTube videos.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488054028, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408558, "authorName": "Geezer", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/geezer/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Jay Leno has a great video on You Tube about these cars his a later year. If he would just loan me the money I would bid. Really cool car. GLWS", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488061486, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408695, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Voiture, I\"ve mentioned this before, but it's worth it again: The panel gaps on a DS/ID are due to a bit of history that I never stumbled on until a business visit to Citroen Paris gave me a chance to ask the question of a Citroen engineer old enough to be familiar with the history: Citroen was SO FAR ahead of the times that the removable bodypanels were supposed to be manufactured in PLASTIC, probably ABS, unlike the fiberglass roof. And this most likely occurred as steel bodypanel tooling is damned expensive, and the investment in introducing such a radical design in '55 was probably so high Citroen/Michelin elected to look at either vacuum-forming sheet ABS, which I believe had just been introduced to the world, or possibly something in the acrylic field. And vacuum-forming is one of the cheapest means of production, and WAS used for the thermoplastic dashboard surround and glovebox door.\nSince plastics expand/contract far more than steel with temp changes, Citroen decided very wisely to mount front & rear fenders on rubber sockets, which allowed plastic panels to float lengthwise in hot climates. Not wanting the fender edges to interfere with the doors in very hot climes, body gaps were made large, which in turn required the rubber gap seals to prevent wind whistle. My belief, after having had a primary role in and living thru the introduction of the first ever composite fenders on the Chrysler cars introduced by Bob Lutz in 1990 - the LH series - Citroen had no idea how well the DS would be accepted. So plastic panel tooling was far cheaper a risk than stamping dies, and the Citroen fellow gave me the answer I'd long sought! \n\nBefore the Chrysler launch, they were just about bankrupt again, as in 1980. We - Dupont - got the business as we'd prototyped fenders in a new plastic we'd developed for just this market, in competition with GE Plastics. The lower tooling cost vs steel in just the fender helped Chrsyler get into production, and when the cars proved a success, the volume shot up and we lost the business to the faster production rate of steel stampings. Plastic cycles at about 1 min. per part. Steel = many parts/min. But we taught the steel guys how to make more detailed fenders than they'd ever attempted.\nSo Citroen management was very prescient, except for the wild acceptance of the DS. History records that at the end of the first day of the Oct. '55 Paris introduction, they had at least 10,000 orders, which might be a record for those days. At week's end, they had 80,000 orders!! I do believe that is a world record that may still stand. Anyone have better data? That strength had to convince Michelin bosses they had to go immediately to steel to meet demand. I still don't know if plastic bodypanel tooling was ever made - I just didn't think to ask the question at the time - not knowing of course that I would later be tromping this same ground in my job! \nSo Voiture, THERE is the reason for the large panel gaps, and it is NOT an indication of a distorted chassis. In fact, Fiero copied the DS \"driveable, panel-less\" chassis approach - all plastic panels were hang-ons. I worked that plant when we put some plastic on that car. But their panels were stable enough that they didn't have to allow them to move lengthwise to handle temp extremes. In fact, the Chrysler LH fenders were about 50 inches long, so I had to design slide fasteners that would hold them laterally to the hoodline, but allow as much as 1/2 INCH forward expansion when they went thru the Ecoat ovens at 350-400 F for 30 mins to bake the corrosion-coating (even tho the plastic didn't need it). And they had to shrink back to a good gap fit at the doorline and hood front. \nSo around 40 yrs after Citroen had designed for plastic panels, the rest of the world decided to look at that idea again: Buick, Cadillac, in the early '80s, Honda on the CRX, Saturn, & so on. If those details don't convince you Citroen was the most innovative co. on the planet, I don't know what will -", "likes": 23, "timestamp": 1488077070, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408897, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@geezer thank you, will try and find the video ;)", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488122130, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1408960, "authorName": "rlbatch", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/rlbatch/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Geezer, Here is a link to changing the tire, It's a DS and you don't have to understand Italian:\r\nhttp://tinyurl.com/jb7xzgg", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488127007, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1409081, "authorName": "PatinaBeforePolish", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/patinabeforepolish/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Thank you @Frenchbuff for sharing your knowledge - makes me want to buy one! Always good to hear from those that helped design and build the classics.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488137030, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1409210, "authorName": "RevSome", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/revsome/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Good lord, the things ya learn here.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488153019, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1409314, "authorName": "SalParadise", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/salparadise/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Frenchbuff - Awesome read. The only thing - the world record for Citroen DS orders probably has been broken by the Tesla Model 3 - which stands at 373,000. We'll see if that car is for real though. I'd rather have this car.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488164722, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1409376, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Hmmm - Salparadise - considering the European population in 1955, vs the US population today - I'll still bet the DS holds the record as a proportion of buying public. And a Tesla can't play hopscotch!\n\nHeck, I and others were building elec. batt powered (toy) cars in the '50s with Tiny Atom motors and Erector sets - what else is new? Only the batteries, and they're still not good enough. Very hard to achieve the energy density of gasoline with batts. And believe it or not, in 1970, on a trip to Det. to look for a job at Ford, somehow I stumbled on a group electrifying Renault Dauphines, and got a ride to lunch in one. And that one disappeared like the Baker & Detroit Electrics. \nA guy in our Sat coffee and BS grp showed up in a 1991 \"It\" 4 dr elec. car built in Canada - got it for the price of a set of new golfcart batts - the car was free! Seller was auctioning it & nobody bid on it! In near mint condition, it was a real go-getter.....25 mph for all of 12 miles! All fiberglass, 2CV rubberband seats, soundproofed like a bass drum. He bought it for his grandkids to play with! \nOh - another unknown record for Citroen: Around 1992 I submitted the DS pure nylon (not reinforced with anything) turbine-shaped fan on the waterpump, as candidate for the Society of Plastics Engineers HALL OF FAME. To be admitted, the plastic application had to have been in continuous production for at least 10 yrs successfully. The DS fan is the FIRST plastic engine fan used in the auto industry. No one challenged me, because they couldn't! \nAND - it was the first car to use nylon fuel lines - from the tank right up to the fuel pump. That nylon is/was so tough, you could fold it double, squeeze it shut with pliers, release it and it would snap back to shape and function just fine - no cracking. Guess what's under the rubber sleeve on your new 40 psi injected car? AND - that nylon fan is held on with the first ever self-threading screws into a plastic without metal thread inserts. I've even left out two of the 4 screws and never lost a fan.\nThe fan is a beautiful design- perfect turbine -shaped multiblade unit, perfectly balanced out of the mold and provides very efficient airflow in its ducted shroud and 1/5th the weight of a metal one. Ford had to go to plastic engine fans in the 1970's to replace their steel fanblades due to fatigue failure - I had one take out the radiator on my '70 LTD co. car while on I 294 around Chicago. I think they had a silent recall, as two people died from fans shedding a blade while being worked on. I heard one went thru the hood. Shortly after that, they went plastic- first on the Fairmont. And you know the rest. When the world went FWD, transverse engines lost their engine-driven fans. So I handmade the first prototype model of a one-piece plastic fanshroud for Delco's proposed electrically driven fan. It went into production faster than most of our applications because it made sense economically and for many other reasons. Really funny thing was - every time I was in a development conference with customers about designing a \"new\" auto part or application, I had to bite my tongue and keep quiet, as Citroen had already done it - way back around 1935 on the Traction, or later on the DS or SM. Now that's a REAL track record!", "likes": 9, "timestamp": 1488176045, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1410512, "authorName": "CarCrazy24", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/carcrazy24/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Is there a major Citroen shop or \"guru\" in the U.S? I might be looking for a clean example in the near future. It's easily one of the most beautiful and revolutionary cars of all time IMO", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488239678, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1410661, "authorName": "911GT6", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/911gt6/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@CarCrazy24 Check out the https://citroenvie.com/ website. They have links to most of the major gurus out there.", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488247558, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1410841, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "CarCrazy24, try Dave Burnham in Delancy, NY., or Lon Price in Santa Cruz Ca. David Hume in Kentucky, altho I think he specializes in SMs. They'll all probably know what cars are or may come up for sale. And there's Wally Escherich and friends in Redlands Ca. If you want an experienced Cit guy to look over a car with you, connect with a club wherever you are, such as Citroenvie, the San Francisco Citroen club or knowledgeable members near you from the clubs rosters. I and others have done once-overs for interested parties, so you should be able to find someone nearby. Best thing to do is learn from owners before you buy - talk with everyone you can get your hands on. There's a lot to check out on these cars, but once you know one, you know pretty much all of them, as there were only two series - early, '55-'65 DS/ID19s with singlebolt wheels, early 3 main engines. Then '66-'75 with 5 main engines, stronger transaxle, simpler brakes & 5 stud, 15 in. wheels. However, rear fenders, rear bumpers, all doors '55-'71, roofs, glass are interchangeable over 20 yrs of production! All interiors are swappable over the 20, except for the dashes - about 3 different styles. How's that for replaceability/compatibility/simplicity? And the hydraulics are near identical, except for a fluid change and a few components, but all principles of operation remain the same and a large number of other parts. Remember, it's just PLUMBING - albeit applied extremely intelligently. And they keep coming out of the woodwork because there just isn't anything else like them and we'll never get anything close to them again! These cars will cruise all day long at 80-90 without a sweat, brake better than most cars, steer better, give you 20-25 mpg and RIDE FAR BETTER. No electronics to fail and leave you stranded. Carry a nail file and screwdriver for fixing the points if necessary. Just think of the hydraulics as aircraft landing gear - long travel, superb shock absorbing, and able to leap tall bldgs in a single bound......er, deep ruts rather! You'll never tire of playing LowRider for disbelievers.", "likes": 6, "timestamp": 1488263316, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1410980, "authorName": "Kwahl", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/kwahl/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "French Buff Great post //looking for a 5 speed or auto SM..post if you know of any US west coast", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488289973, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1411302, "authorName": "CarCrazy24", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/carcrazy24/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Thank you all for the education! \n\nI had the pleasure of going on a road trip through the LA canyons with Wally and his Citroen buds, they are a great bunch of guys. Very knowledgeable and humble. Can't wait to get one of my own down the road!", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488303226, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1412150, "authorName": "CEC", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/cec/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Seems also like BaT member \"metric\" is a great source of knowledge, unless he is one of the expert already named here, hiding behind his user ID !", "likes": 2, "timestamp": 1488323020, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1412387, "authorName": "DCurran", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/dcurran/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@CEC for a long time I thought that metric was Dave, but that is not true. Metric is a Citro\u00ebn savant. He knows things about Citro\u00ebns that mortal men probably should not know. I do not want to say exactly who he is, but I am very glad to know him.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488334091, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1412550, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "You might call Metric \"Deep Stroke\", as he's deep into Panhards and Tatras as well as Cits. But often skulks around corners. Known him for way long but don't see him enough, as he's always very educational to talk with to learn odd things about our odd orphans. He'll remain anonymous as long as he wants - he just doesn't blow his own horn - simply adds corrections when alternative facts show up......", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488346635, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1412558, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "What condition can you tolerate on an SM Kwahl? I know of 4 - 3 slushboxes and a stick - all in VERY dilapidated condition - suitable only for crocodile tears or teardown to see how they're put together, but the owner is 49 cents short of a half dollar when it comes to price, regardless of what marque you ask him about of the 40 cars in his pile. Best to talk with Wally in Redlands - he's the Cal. grapevine when it comes to Andre's cars - he must know half the SMs in the US -", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488347444, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1412682, "authorName": "Kwahl", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/kwahl/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Frenchbuff, thank you. If you are talking about PH in Calif, I have seen all of those cars. I have spoken with Jerry Hathaway, John Titus and Dave Burnham. I do not prefer an east Coast Car and the Car should be complete with all functional and a decent interior.\nI am not looking for a resto project. I have been through and driven a car for sale and walked away because I believe it was hit and the seller was not forthcoming. We cannot post email or phone numbers here but i would like to chat with you and speak with Wally in redlands if you can post his contact info. I have learned that the Citroen was probably the most advanced design engineering of its time and from early on. I own an Avanti and I see similarity in the SM shilouette..", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488374337, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1413270, "authorName": "911GT6", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/911gt6/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "This is one of the few BaT auctions that I have closely followed. Is it normal to have such silence in the bidding until near the end of the auction? To me, the car seems decent enough, yet the bidding volume is very low.\n\nOr am I missing something about the car that caused others to lose their attention?", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488397181, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1413514, "authorName": "beNGK", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/bengk/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@911GT6 :\n\nthere's no reason to bid early - this isn't a car where there are lots of people looking to mark their territory with a bid and/or draws cutesy bids ending in something associated with the car for sale. this is also a much more niche vehicle than an air-cooled 911 or other common BaT offerings.\n\nthis is also a Citroen, currently located in Europe, in a somewhat unusual colorway, with various mumblings from the peanut gallery as to condition/originality/etc, which might give bidders pause.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488401225, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1413893, "authorName": "PWSchuh", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pwschuh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I'm usually not part of the in-crowd, but I know who metric is as well and have benefited from his encyclopedic knowledge of the D model.\n\nAs a long-term D owner (15 years) I would not hesitate to bid on this one if I was in the market for one of this spec.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488405900, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414024, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I'll give Wally a call Kwahl & see what his situation is - had some med probs recently but still knows what he knows. Barring the advent of microchips & Moore's law & all the electronics whizbangs they're cluttering the world with, I challenge anyone to name a car that still has features no other car has, nor put as many still advanced features in a single product on wheels. No one has yet piped up with a claim & I figure pretty soon the DS can be named as the Champ of all time. And they did it without a single nod to Nikola Tesla, and this is not to slight the man - he was brilliant in other fields and we all owe him a huge debt & he does deserve his name on a slick car, but I'll drive a DS across a plowed field field more comfortably and thru 2 ft of new snow better, plus drive farther on one tank of hydrocarbons vs one of those with its AA batts full-up of mad electrons. Having had a ride in one of the first prototype Impacts by GM, scorching its tires out of our parking lot in Troy Mich, all I see in the new model T is an autonomous mode or ludicrous mode, depending on which button you push, a ton of sensors that have been around a long time and a helluva lot of coding time going into making us worse drivers than ever - witness the poor guy who lost his head over the newcomer - warn't the T's fault. As JL said very recently, when the N. Koreans lob an EMP dirtclod at us, every chip in the large vicinity will fry and his '41 or whatever pre-chip car will still be toddling along. Just don't forget your nail file for touching up the points.", "likes": 3, "timestamp": 1488411852, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414276, "authorName": "1969BVH", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/1969bvh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "As the owner of a 1969 DS21 Pallas bvh and a Tesla model S, I think it is fair to say that they are 2 of the most significant cars of the last 60+ years. Both are very unique and fantastic experiences to drive, but for completely different reasons. \r\n\r\nFor those of you that are not familiar with the DS, the original design included a hydraulically controlled and actuated clutch and 4 speed manual. Also known in the USA as the Citromatic, it used a hydraulic control module to operate the clutch and select each of the 4 speeds with a simple movement of a lever forward of the steering wheel. There is no clutch pedal. The conventional dry plate clutch uses a hydraulic cylinder for actuation and the cover of the otherwise conventional 4 speed manual transmission has hydraulic actuators for gear selection. Properly setup, they execute flawless up shifts and down shifts with a very light touch on the control lever. BVH stands for Boite Vitesse Hydraulique or hydraulic gear box. Another example of the amazing engineering in these cars. \r\n\r\nAs a simplified version of the DS the ID had the standard column shift transmission. \r\n\r\nIt's hard to describe the experience of driving a DS. It needs to be experienced. \r\n\r\nParts availability is very good and reasonably priced and although intimidating at first, most repairs be handled by a reasonably mechanically skilled owner. And, as has been noted, there is a great support network available.", "likes": 4, "timestamp": 1488424752, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414449, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@PWSchuh thank you ;)", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488459413, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414451, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "I am pleased to see that there are a lot of bat members here that appreciate the Citroen and it is amazing how much you can learn from all the comments etc \nThank you all", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488459579, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414536, "authorName": "manpot", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/manpot/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "With those really cool extra lights I'd be tempted to make this a little mild rally car..not change its originality but add a few bits and bobs..just love it..", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488463777, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414621, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@manpot you got me curious, and there where quite a few! \nHave a look https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqty3w4K3ps", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488466997, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1414772, "authorName": "Frenchbuff", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/frenchbuff/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Terrific video! I hope people noticed how controlled the DS was on those gawdawful roads, and how composed the video and the occupants were during all that hard driving. If that was a 911, they'd be all over the road and banging off the headliner. On several easy rallys, I've often driven right past other \"sports cars\" because they were so uncomfortable and at the edge of the suspension's capabilities, with more limited wheel travel and firmer springs and worse damping.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488472695, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1415017, "authorName": "oldukguy", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/oldukguy/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Very few cars make it into my, personal, collector's stable. The DS being an obvious inclusion. The SM rating as supa-desirable. The ID being the economy representative. Yes, these Citroen cars are a trip into the next galaxy.", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488479875, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1415114, "authorName": "jjokc", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/jjokc/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@Coolhunter-\n\nJust for the sake of pointing it out (I read through the comments and didn't see mention of it elsewhere), the \"Portuguese title from 23 June 1961\" is actually signed and dated July 15, 1982 \u2013 Lots of things could've happened (like a color change and a new interior) in the intervening 20 years.\n\nThat said, it looks to be a lovely car that I'd have no hesitation in bidding on were I in the position to do so. GLWTA", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488482959, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1415281, "authorName": "ChazMo", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/chazmo/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Yikes! Check out the huge body panel gaps between rear wings/fenders and the rear doors & boot/trunk lid! Something afoot there- not as I remember from my days in France.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488485821, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1415512, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@jjokc Thank you ;) \nAs I explained before, the title was renewed in 1982 but, in Portugal, at that time (now things are obviously different) the car configuration etc was maintained even if you had done some changes to the car.\nNowadays you are obligated to pay to change the info on the title (if you change colours for ex) otherwise you will be fined when pulled over.\nThank you for your words! ;)", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488488463, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1416689, "authorName": "PWSchuh", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pwschuh/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Even with all of the aforementioned issues, this thing is still way underbid.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488554558, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1416765, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@PWSchuh true ;) \nIf you do a quick google search you can see that they trade for different values.\nWith or without issues, they are worth way more than 5,000 USD ;) \nhttps://www.classic-trader.com/uk/cars/search/citroen/ds?make=43&model=1716&locationDistanceUnit=mls&pagination%5BentriesPerPage%5D=15&pagination%5Bpage%5D=3&pagination%5Breset%5D=0&sorting%5Bsorting%5D=datePublished_desc", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488557060, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1416948, "authorName": "aar1978", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/aar1978/", "bidAmount": 9500, "content": "$9,500 bid placed by aar1978", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488565768, "type": "bat-bid"}, {"id": 1417028, "authorName": "chapron67", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/chapron67/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@ChazMo the panels are all 'unstressed' and adjustable with a simple wrench.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488568437, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417043, "authorName": "rlbatch", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/rlbatch/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "If the car was in California it would be bidding at 3 times what it is now", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488569105, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417129, "authorName": "RevSome", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/revsome/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "@ChazMo---Frenchbuff gave a detailed and interesting explanation for the panel gaps on this earlier in the thread, having to do with the composite nature of the panels. You ought to read it.\n\nThere's nothing amiss. Just the way they were built.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571767, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417132, "authorName": "nokon", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/nokon/", "bidAmount": 12600, "content": "$12,600 bid placed by nokon", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571788, "type": "bat-bid"}, {"id": 1417135, "authorName": "Veloce49", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/veloce49/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Quite a pop there", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571808, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417136, "authorName": "watchcarefully", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/watchcarefully/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "En garde!", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571809, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417141, "authorName": "nokon", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/nokon/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Sold on 3/3/17 for $12,600 to nokon", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571910, "type": "bat-bid-reserve"}, {"id": 1417145, "authorName": "spd", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/spd/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Happy motoring!", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571931, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417144, "authorName": "Veloce49", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/veloce49/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Gotta wonder if it could have been had for 9,600", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488571931, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417148, "authorName": "rlbatch", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/rlbatch/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Wonder if nokon is in the USA or Europe?", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488572044, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417172, "authorName": "Coolhunter (The Seller)", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/coolhunter/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Congratulations @nokon ;)", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488572269, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1417942, "authorName": "Pyropete", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/pyropete/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "This car had me talking to my wife and sons about a slow road trip around Portugal. Somehow I am now going to France. I don't know how I manage these things?", "likes": 1, "timestamp": 1488591988, "type": "comment"}, {"id": 1421641, "authorName": "voiture", "authorUrl": "https://bringatrailer.com/member/voiture/", "bidAmount": 0, "content": "Price is right on the money, I think, maybe even a little low for a pre-integrated DS. But there were a couple of questions raised that might have deterred some bidders.", "likes": 0, "timestamp": 1488927681, "type": "comment"}]